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  • Cimarron
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-03-16

    Hello all,

        I just received my M32 mixer, and it came with a DN32-Live card to interface to my DAW.  It seems that this may be the place I might request suggestions on what I might need to do to make that work.  If not, and you can suggest a proper place to ask, I would appreciate that.

        So, in general I found some directions for installing the drivers and such for the DN32-USB, which may be part of my issue (or not), though I didn't appreciate that there was a distinction at the time.  I followed the directions to upgrade the M32's firmware to 4.02, and that seemed to complete fine, the M32 is working from what I can tell (I've not tried every option - by far, of course) and sounds great through the mains.

        I then installed the ASIO-Driver v4.59 onto my DAW computer.  I can see the DN32-LIVE in the Device Manager under Sound, video and game controllers.  However looking at the Properties, the Device status says that "This device cannot start [Code 10]".  I've tried computer restarting/power cycling (several times), using different USB ports, trying a different USB cable, to no avail.

        Also, and probably no surprise here, I've tried the DN32USBAudioDfu.exe, which it appears is intended to update firmware on the DN32-LIVE itself, which pops up a "DN32-USB Firmware Upgrade" window, but it says "No device found.  Please plug in the device you want to upgrade".

        In my frustration I even dug out an old Macbook Pro and tried plugging into that (it was suggested that no driver installation would be needed for the Mac - though I wouldn't want to use that computer as my DAW), and that instantly just crashed my Mac upon plugin, and if I powered it up with the DN32 plugged in via USB, it also crashed while trying to boot.  So, some research about that seemed to suggest that my Macbook Pro had "Snow Leopard" on it, which does crash like that, but upgrading to Lion (I think it was - next version up), would make it work.  I haven't yet tried to do the upgrade, since thats not my preferred system for this.  But at least it indicates that some computer can detect and react (by crashing) to the fact that my DN32 is attached - and given the OS installed on that system, it even reacts the way that is expected (though not as desired).

    So I guess the main point of this post is to solicit any suggestions or guidance that could get my M32-Live connected to my Computer (and then get the DAW to see it).  Thanks for any help with this.

    -- Greg

     

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    • Cimarron
      RexBeckett

      @Cimarron 


      Hello Greg, welcome to the community.


      First check that the option card is really a DN32-Live. It should have SD card slots as well as a USB connector. With the console power off, remove the card and reinsert - making sure it fits into the guides correctly.


       


      With the console power on, check on Setup -> Card that the card is being recognized. Also check on Setup -> Global under Firmware that the card firmware is A12. If not, you will need to download the A12 firmware and install it.


       


      With everything connected and on, open Windows Device Manager and display the DN32-Live device. Right-click and select Uninstall. Now disconnect the USB and reboot the PC. When you reconnect the USB, the device should be reinstalled - possibly without errors.

      • March 16, 2020
    • Cimarron
      GaryHiggins

      @Cimarron 


      I think @RexBeckett has hit the main issue-the DN-32 Live latest firmware is required. Pretty sure you need A12 with mixer firmware 4.02. That can't be done via a computer but by a usb stick on the mixer itself. If mixer firmware version 4.02 is installed already you can try to update the card with the mixer ON by using setup/update/firmware (bottom left of the screen) and then it will let you scroll to the proper update file on the usb drive. If that fails or won't work properly you will have to do it with the mixer off. Make sure the A12 card firmware file is then the ONLY firmware at the root directory with the mixer off method. Other type mixer firmware can be in a folder on the drive but not at the root directory. Turn on the mixer while holding down the usb button, the card firmware should update. You can cofirm the card firmware on the setup page by reading the (very tiny) info given there.


      I might suggest completely uninstalling the drivers and trying again.


      Also perhaps worth a try is usb driver 4.38 which can be found if you check off show legacy versions in the list of available files.


       


      EDIT: There are several known issues with Win7-documented in the pdf.


       


       

      • March 16, 2020
    • Cimarron
      Cimarron

      @GaryHigginsThanks for taking time to reply to my message.


      As I mentioned in my reply to @RexBeckett it looks like the M32 (which has 4.02 firmware)  sees the DN32 card, and is reporting a firmware version of A12.  So, I would assume I could move beyond the firmware installation (or re-installation), or would you think that might still be a potental step to take?


      It seems a reasonable step to try deleting the DN32 driver in Windows Add/Remove programs (after first removing the device again from the device manager), and then reinstalling it.  I've seen stranger things happen.


      Failing that I may look into the 4.38 driver.  Thanks for that information.  And I'll look for the .pdf you refered to.


      Thanks again,


      -- Greg


       

      • March 17, 2020
    • Cimarron
      RexBeckett

      @Cimarron 


      It sounds as though the console is happy with the DN32-Live card and the card is running the latest firmware. I cannot say whether it is worth buying a suitable driver to reseat the card only that it has sometimes fixed problems. It has also been known for reinstallation of the card firmware to apparently fix problems. I've seen it on my own console and cannot explain it. Sometimes there can be a sequence of steps that fix a problem and we don't always identify the actual cause.


       


      There can be several reasons why a USB device cannot start. Common ones are defective USB cables, using a USB 3 port instead of a USB 2.0 one, connecting through a USB hub, incorrect drivers or that the device has a fault. I think you have already tried different cables and ports. It would certainly be worth following Gary's advice to reinstall the driver and, if necessary, trying an older version of the driver.

      • March 17, 2020
    • Cimarron
      Cimarron

      My son brought his macbook down and we connected the USB from the DN32-LIVE to that and he pulled up Logic and it saw the interface and could specify any of the 32 channels as the input device for a channel.  So, it seems pretty apparent that the issue is with my computer.


      I had purchased myself the appropriate screwdriver and removed the DN32-LIVE, and re-installed it.  Just to give that a chance, and overall good to have the screwdriver.  No change.


      I went to try the older 4.38 driver, and in the folder with the driver there is a PDF file TUSBAudio_KnownIssues_v4.38.0.pdf which I looked into and see a section "10.3 AllSignersEqual Group Policy breaks Driver Installation".  Reading about this it sounds like the issue I'm having.  If this is set to OFF somehow (thrugh Group Policy Editor or something), Windows will not actually install the driver although the driver setup finishes successfully.  When it finds the DN32 on the USB port it installs a built in driver "for the respective device which possibly fails to start".  I had noticed that the device manager page that described the DN32 device did say something about a "Microsoft" driver, but I thought that might have been a result of the other issue I'd had to address to even try to install the driver, which involved installing a Windows Update KB3033929 to resolve.  This was apparently due to an issue that the driver wasn't signed (or incorrectly signed or something).


      So, I wanted to check on the setting, but apparently the Windows 7 Home Premium edition on my computer is too lame to have gpedit.msc to start from the run menu (or another thing I saw mentioned gpupdate.msc from an administrator command prompt), which are the tools that are to be used for "Enterprise" versions of Win7, and it did mention that they wouldn't be there if you had Home Premium.  But it didn't mention how to check, or what to do if you do have Home Premium (which I do).


      This sounds like exactly what I'm encountering, If anyone knows about Group Policies on Home Premium (does it even have them?), or perhaps an alternate approach to installing the driver (manually copying some files into place and possibly making a registry entry or such)?  Or perhaps this might already have been resolved, if I only knew where to look or what to search for.

      • March 23, 2020
  • drice
    Contributor - Level 2
    2019-06-13

    We have an M32 in our Broadcast TV station and the features are excellent, but we hate having to use up two faders for every stereo source input. I'm wondering if controlling a linked pair of inputs with a single fader might ever be a feature in a future firmware/software update?

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    • drice
      AnthonieHunter

      Did you consider controlling the pair with a DCA?

      • June 13, 2019
    • drice
      drice

      Using a DCA to control a stereo input is a great idea and I’m using four of them for that purpose currently. We’ve got about 10 stereo sources we’d like to have on single faders. The console has enough inputs for all of our sources, just trying to get the most frequently used ones on the top fader layer. And trying to get my sound ops used to a console that is not our analog 32 channel Verona!  Thanks for the input!

      • June 13, 2019
    • drice
      drice

      While playing around with the great options that everyone has been suggesting, I stumbled upon another possibility (provided you aren't concerned with keeping stereo separation on a particular input). This solution could also work as a kind of internal router, and works around the "routing in banks of eight only" limitation by allowing the placement of any single input on any fader. 


      Here's the theory (I have't actually tried it yet). Physically patch a cable between an available Aux Output and an XLR input in the 1-16 range (to put it on the first fader bank). Now you can internally route any one of your inputs to that Aux, and it will be available on that first bank's fader. Be sure to send that input prefader and pre-mute, then mute the actual input, so it does not feed the Main output from there. You'll now have full control of that input on the fader you chose, without having to change fader banks to get to it. You could send a stereo pair to that Aux and control it with that single fader (it will be summed mono of course), without burning a DCA or two top bank faders. 


      In our TV studio, we have to occasionally use different sources for different shows, and the mix can be unpredicatable, so having 1 or 2 "route-able" inputs can be really useful to keep the frequently used faders for that show on the top page/bank. We've got a lot of possible inputs from audio clip playback devices, graphics SFX, in-studio guest mics, phone callers, Skype guests and satellite guests, so it's not possible to keep them all on the first fader bank, and the mixer's installation makes it impractical to physically repatch before each show. I can save a scene for each possible scenario and just load the correct one once I know where all my sources are coming from for a particular show. 


      Thanks for all the great advice everyone, and I hope this idea can work for someone who might have been struggling with a similar issue (if it actually works and does not create some kind of audio black hole). 


       

      • June 15, 2019
    • drice
      KevinMaxwell


      @drice wrote:


      While playing around with the great options that everyone has been suggesting, I stumbled upon another possibility (provided you aren't concerned with keeping stereo separation on a particular input). This solution could also work as a kind of internal router, and works around the "routing in banks of eight only" limitation by allowing the placement of any single input on any fader. 


      Here's the theory (I have't actually tried it yet). Physically patch a cable between an available Aux Output and an XLR input in the 1-16 range (to put it on the first fader bank). Now you can internally route any one of your inputs to that Aux, and it will be available on that first bank's fader. Be sure to send that input prefader and pre-mute, then mute the actual input, so it does not feed the Main output from there. You'll now have full control of that input on the fader you chose, without having to change fader banks to get to it. You could send a stereo pair to that Aux and control it with that single fader (it will be summed mono of course), without burning a DCA or two top bank faders. 


      In our TV studio, we have to occasionally use different sources for different shows, and the mix can be unpredicatable, so having 1 or 2 "route-able" inputs can be really useful to keep the frequently used faders for that show on the top page/bank. We've got a lot of possible inputs from audio clip playback devices, graphics SFX, in-studio guest mics, phone callers, Skype guests and satellite guests, so it's not possible to keep them all on the first fader bank, and the mixer's installation makes it impractical to physically repatch before each show. I can save a scene for each possible scenario and just load the correct one once I know where all my sources are coming from for a particular show. 


      Thanks for all the great advice everyone, and I hope this idea can work for someone who might have been struggling with a similar issue (if it actually works and does not create some kind of audio black hole). 


       





      I am not understanding what this will give you unless you are talking about using a Mix Bus to mearge each pair of inputs.

      • June 16, 2019
    • drice
      drice

      Merging (summing) the stereo inputs to one fader is one possible use, the other is that this allows me to internally route any one of my inputs to the top bank of faders. Sure, I could do this by simply connecting that device to an input that already appears on the top layer, but the connections on the back of our mixer are not easily accessible, and depending on what sources we are using for a show, I might want to quickly place something on a top level fader that does not usually appear there. Some other mixers allow you to do this on an single input basis, but the M32 locks you into routing inputs to faders in banks of eight. 

      • June 17, 2019
  • JohnShepherd
    Contributor - Level 3
    2020-01-01

    Hi, I'm looking at these 2 consoles as options to add to my RCF speaker system. I'm aware the fx processing of the X32 does not compensate for latency. I'm looking for the story behind the fx in each. 

    Are they identical processors? 

    Does latency mean much in smaller rooms? I don't have a large rig. 2 RCF 708 subs and 2 RCF 745A cabs for front. Thanks very much, Shep

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    • JohnShepherd
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi John @JohnShepherd ,


      The FX engine is identical in the X32, M32, X-Air and M-Air family of consoles.


       

      • January 1, 2020
    • JohnShepherd
      KevinMaxwell


      @JohnShepherd wrote:


      Hi, I'm looking at these 2 consoles as options to add to my RCF speaker system. I'm aware the fx processing of the X32 does not compensate for latency. I'm looking for the story behind the fx in each. 


      Are they identical processors? 


      Does latency mean much in smaller rooms? I don't have a large rig. 2 RCF 708 subs and 2 RCF 745A cabs for front. Thanks very much, Shep





      The way that the consoles that compensate for latency work is they add delay to everything to keep everything in line. So you have more overall latency in your system. The only problem with not having this is if you send the same signal thru 2 different paths (with one of them going thru an FX)  and then combine them, one of them will be out of time with the other one. That is not good.


       


      So it is like the old joke – a guy comes into the doctor wildly waving his arm above his head and says – Doctor it hurts when I do this and the doctor replies – then don’t do that.


       


      So don’t route the same signal thru 2 different paths and then combine then. At least not without testing to see if they are still time aligned.


       


      And here is a little hint if you have never tried it, add a little bit of delay to your feed to your main speakers so they are time aligned with the acoustic signal coming off of the stage. And then try turning that delay on and off and see if it helps. I always time align my sound systems to the stage and it makes it much smoother sounding in the house. I like to say that with it delayed the speakers have a tendency to disappear and with the delay off you notice the sound coming out of the speakers instead of it sounding like it is coming from the stage.


       

      • January 1, 2020
  • sigma
    Triber
    2020-09-03
    1 71
  • Mrizzo94
    Contributor - Level 1
    2019-06-06

    I prefer using matrixes. However, unless I link them together I can't send Main left to Matrix Left. If there a way to mute just the left or just the right channel without un linking them?

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    • Mrizzo94
      RexBeckett

      @Mrizzo94 


      Hi Michael, welcome to the forum.


       


      You cannot normally mute one side of stereo linked channels or buses. Why do you want to do this? There may be another way to achieve what you want.

      • June 6, 2019
  • dmorrier
    Contributor - Level 3
    2019-12-24

    With an M32C connected to a DL16 and S16 over AES50 (not daisy chained), can the mix busses be routed to the DL16/S16 XLR outputs?  

    I have routed the 16 Outs to the 8 XLR outputs on the DL16 and S16. I can successfully send signals from the Main L/R/MC to the Outs and demonstrate it make it to each XLR output. I can also connect the Directs to the Out and demonstrate it makes it through. However when I direct a mix bus to the Outs like shown in the attached file, nothing makes it through to the DL16/S16. The meters also verify that nothing is being sent. If the Outs are also mapped to the Ultranet outputs, the meters show it make it to the Ultranet output but not the XLRs.  What am I missing? 

    select-mix-busses.PNG
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    • dmorrier
      CraigFowler

      What you've shown of the routing looks fine, but there could be more to it.  Upload your whole scene file.  Have you checked that the bus masters are up, and that they're not muted, both with their own master mutes and via mute groups\DCAs?

      • December 23, 2019
    • dmorrier
      GaryHiggins

      @dmorrier The answer is yes. I would check your aes50 outputs menu and make sure "out 1-8" and "out 9-16" are set correctly for the aes50a 1-8 and/or aes50b 1-8 outputs and that both stageboxes are set to the right mode (probably both at mode 1). Your pic shows you are using post fader tap points so as Craig alluded to, make sure the faders are up and unmuted. Bottom line though is mix busses can surely be routed to the DL/S16 outputs. That assignment is done via the aes50a or b output routing menu. Make sure the DL/S16 is connected via its A port. Also what tap point are you using for direct out of the ultranet. Try using the same post fader MIXBUS assignments for the ultranet and check your meters to see if the signal no longer appears. That would indicate that it is a fader issue.

      • December 23, 2019
  • sigma
    Triber
    2020-09-03

    testt testtestt testtestt testtestt test

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  • lysterj
    Contributor - Level 1
    2020-02-03

    I'm not sure where to report it, so I'll try here - I've found a bug (pretty dramatically, during a show) in firmware 4.02.  

    Using the new block User Input patch in 4.02, and a channel safed, head amp gain is not retained during a scene recall.  All other channel parameters appear to correctly retain their values.  I've tried changing scenes with input patch set to Local, and AES50, and the channel safe behaves as expected (input gain stays put).  But with User Input patches, gain is not sticking.

    Using a DL32 head box on AES50a, if that matters.

    Hopefully it can be fixed in the next update.  

     

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  • RikRayner
    Contributor - Level 3
    2019-06-10

    Hi Guys,

    I'm looking to move up from my XR18 to either an X32 rack or a Midas M32C and the simple question is are the Behringer SD8/SD16 stageboxes compatible with the M32C or do I have to get the Midas DL stageboxes?

    Thanks in advance

    Rik

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    • RikRayner
      Paul_Vannatto

      Hi Rik @RikRayner,


      Yes the SD8 and SD16 will work with the M32C. But you don't gain much of the "Midas" touch that way. The M32C has the identical DSP engine as the X32 models. The difference is in the Midas preamps and outputs, which in the case of the M32C would be in the stagebox(s). You would be far better ahead to get an X32 Rack with an SD8 (or 2) or an SD16 IMO.


       

      • June 10, 2019
    • RikRayner
      RikRayner

      Hi Paul,


      thanks for the confirmation.  I'm attracted by the ultra-compact form factor of the M32C and the ability to expand the array of inputs available, using both the DL and SD series stageboxes.  I can definitely see the use of an SD8 for a stagefront stagebox for monitor wedge and L/R outputs plus vocal mic inputs.  Just a shame that there is no Midas equivalent of the SD8

      • June 10, 2019
    • RikRayner
      Paul_Vannatto


      @RikRayner wrote:


      I'm attracted by the ultra-compact form factor of the M32C and the ability to expand the array of inputs available, using both the DL and SD series stageboxes.  I can definitely see the use of an SD8 for a stagefront stagebox for monitor wedge and L/R outputs plus vocal mic inputs.  Just a shame that there is no Midas equivalent of the SD8





      Yes its also a shame that they discontinued the X32 Core (the Behringer equivalent of the M32C). But to me the real shame is that they didn't produce a Midas equivalent to the X32 Rack. The reason is that there is a significant difference with the Midas Pro preamps and outputs (over the Behringer Midas designed).


       


      Yes there is a space advantage of the 1U form factor, but at the expense of the flexibility of the inputs/outputs. As you probably know, I use a dual X32 Rack with and SD8 and SD18 setup. A couple of years ago (this Aug) I was setting up for a Chicago tribute band when we got hit with 4 downpours during setup/soundcheck. I had the SD16 at the back of the stage to handle the drums and backline and it got a bit wet (due to the horizontal driving rain). The results was that it was showing signals where there was nothing plugged in. Their sound engineer shared his concern and I quickly wheeled one of the Racks to the back of the stage, configured it as an S16, repatched - and we were back in business in about 10 minutes. The other Rack was used as the main mixer, situated at one end of the stage and took care of the MC wireless mics and and opening act (since we were using all 24 inputs of the stageboxes for the main act). If I had a choice between an M32C and X32 Rack, I'd still choose the Rack.


       

      • June 10, 2019
    • RikRayner
      RikRayner

      Hi Paul,


      I can see that by taking the X32 rack I have a backup option of hardwiring into the desk in the event of a stagebox failure.  We've never exceeded the 16 inputs on the XR18 so a pair of SD8s would handle everything connectivity-wise, plus give me the flexibity of stage positioning and additional inputs if the need arises, albeit not as conveniently connected.  Perhgaps that SD16 might be a good option ??

      • June 10, 2019
    • RikRayner
      Paul_Vannatto


      @RikRayner wrote:


      We've never exceeded the 16 inputs on the XR18 so a pair of SD8s would handle everything connectivity-wise, plus give me the flexibity of stage positioning and additional inputs if the need arises, albeit not as conveniently connected.  Perhgaps that SD16 might be a good option ??





      You've never exceeded because you didn't have a choice  Just wait...


       


      If I had only a choice between an SD16 or 2 SD8's, I'd choose the 2 SD8's. It gives you 8 more outputs, plus it gives more flexibility of positioning at stage front/back or left/right, reducing the cable spaghetti.

      • June 10, 2019
  • S-Audio
    Contributor - Level 2
    2020-03-25

    I am trying to use my Yamaha ES6 to trigger ez drummer in my DAW. I have the keyboard midi in and out plugged into  the console but it is not passing midi to my software. Is this possible, or is the midi on the console only for program changes,fader movement etc?

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